Small LBNL-led experiments Panel Notes:
Is it better to carry out a small experiment completely in-house if possible, or do multi-institute collaborations have an advantage no matter how small the experiment?
In the case of the BELLA center, this is one of the key facilities in the field worldwide. It makes sense to be in-house in this case. But collaboration with other institutes is needed for certain key components/elements. Keep integration here, but bring in expertise from collaborators.
For Eos, LBNL is capable of doing it alone, but a demonstrator is also a rallying point for collaboration building. This is also a good opportunity to strengthen diversity. Want to encourage participation of people from multiple institutes. A small experiment/demonstrator also tends to have a small learning curve to integrate new people.
LHC point of view: development is typically person power limited, so multi institute is required.
It all cases to small experiments, co-location of people in one lab is the key to success. It Doesn’t matter what institute, but they have to be fully dedicated in one place. Need to spend as much time as possible with the hardware. Day and night difference in progress between remote work and having people back in the lab.
How much should the Snowmass process be used to develop new small experiments? What is the balance between making intentions public early on vs. keeping things confidential until fairly mature?
It’s a delicate balance. Experience shows people will scoop you if they can. But on the other hand need to bring people in and build support for new ideas. If you don’t publicize, you won’t get funded, but crazy new ideas can go through LDRD first before going public.
Maximum openness and early communication has worked for Holger. You “just” have to do it faster than everyone else (Based on this panel Holger is now looking at writing a white paper for Snowmass). Lots technical development typically needed for new approaches, so it’s not trivial to scoop. A 40GeV plasma accelerator can’t be realistically scooped.
Must use judgment about the right moment. A very raw idea may not be ready. A consensus seem to be to publish original research as papers and cite them in Snowmass white papers. An important part of snowmass is identifying what areas can be addressed by small experiments. Broad overview type data is important for funding. If you were not in Snowmass you may not get funding later. Socializing an idea is important.
What has the division / lab done (or what could they do in the future) to make t possible to go from concept to experimental results?
For the cases in the intro, why should LBL invest in this?
How to leverage these small experiments to further the lab’s programmatic priorities? How to maximize their potential to get some physics out, even for technological demonstrators?
CODEX-b seeks to extend LHC program, which is a programmatic priority. It was worthwhile for LBL to provide leadership in the field and LDRD was a good process for that.
Lab does realizes that intermediate steps in BELLA are critical and has supported Bella very much.
LDRD is the primary way to support new ideas. QIS funding has provided a boost for small experiments- but that was not a lab program. LDRD is small, but there are also lab emphasis on priorities. There is a need to bridge the gap between LDRD and project with support well beyond LDRD scale. Space and engineering support require a big funding jump. <10M does not rise to DOE’s attention so need something else. For example LXe started with NSF because too small for DOE.
Technical support from engineering could be improved. It’s hard to get small injections of technical support. We train students and postdocs to do something that an expert could do very fast (program an FPGA, etc) because we can’t get access to experts for small jobs.
Needing space at underground facilities. Shallow underground lab space and also clean and vibration quiet would be broadly useful. General experimental space also in need. An End Station for BELLA accelerator would be great.
LBL was created because you need a large organization for big science. Must define the right relationship of the lab to small experiments that could in principle be done by a university group. It was noted that it’s hard to get a project going at universities by themselves. Thre is an opportunity for lab to play a role in getting small experiments going. Can be strategic. Some small experiments like Alfa sometimes can see a big improvement from a smart update of a subsystem. These insights come from experience. Continuity of personnel accumulates such experience, but the ability to fund research scientists at universities has decreased a lot. The tech expertise needed is, therefore, at the labs. Has to be made available for small scale efforts. .
How can interested postdocs and students get involved in new development? Are you preparing a Snowmass white paper?
Start by reaching out to project leads. Arrange to work for a day or week in the group to get a meaningful picture. Small experiments need really motivated people. There is a balance between supervision and getting something out of part time students/postdocs. A “diversity of interests” modest funding pool could be very helpful.
On LBL web site it’s not easy to know that these small things exist. Very hard for grads and postdocs to find out. Need a web presence for small experiments. Need a network. Ideas floated were: a yearly open house and more seminars. There is a clear opportunity to set something up here.
Any thoughts for the November Workshop? What Format/preparation/discussion would be most helpful?
Ideas for physics opportunities with individual discussion. Can we come up with new ideas for physics?
Questions would profit about setting up some brainstorming sessions with a few people per topic. Define boundary conditions. Connect with presenters and/or workshop organizers to engage in followup on next workshop. BELLA center on-site beams is a natural candidate.
Other:
It was noted there were no axion experiments on the examples list. There is interest and work in axions in Berkeley. I know Karl van Bibber and Danielle Speller are in Haystac and also developing new metamaterial antennas: https://escholarship.org/uc/item/54z411jb.
The Nonlinear QED topic was brought up. Is Snowmass interested in it? It’s hard to gauge interest in Berkeley on NQED experiments. Tools are there at BELLA, what’s missing is a strong experimental drive.
Akito Kusaka
Alan Poon
Alex Kim
Amara McCune
Anand Raichoor
Angela Galtieri
Aniruddha Bapat
Aritoki Suzuki
Axel Huebl
Bea Noether
Benjamin Nachman
Bethany Goldblum
Brad Welliver
Brian Fujikawa
Callum Wilkinson
Cameron Geddes
Carl Schroeder
carlo benedetti
Chad Mitchell
Chiara Capelli
Christian Bauer
Curtis Berger
Dan Dwyer
Dan McKinsey
Dan Wang
Daniel Antrim
Daniel Carney
Daniele Filippetto
David Brown
David Schlegel
Davide Terzani
Dean Robinson
Debbie Bard
Derun Li
Elliot Reynolds
Elodie Resseguie
Eric Esarey
Eric Linder
Erin Hansen
Fernando sannibale
Gabriel Orebi Gann
GianLuca Sabbi
Greg Aldering
Gregory Penn
Haichen Wang
Hao Ding
Hitoshi Murayama
Holger Mueller
Ian Pong
Jacques Delabrouille
James Mulligan
James Symons
Jean-Luc Vay
Jennifer Rittenhouse West
Jeroen van Tilborg
Ji Qiang
Joanne Cohn
Joe DeRose
Joshua Stackhouse
Juerg Beringer
Julian Borrill
Julien Guy
Junwen Xiong
Karol Krizka
Kevin Wood
Laura Nosler
Li Wang
Lieselotte Obst-Huebl
Liona Fan-Chiang
Marcelo Alvarez
Marco Venturini
Mariel Pettee
Marija Marjanovic
Mark Strovink
Marlene Turner
Martin Landriau
Martin White
Matt Pyle
Maurice Garcia-Sciveres
Maxim Marchevsky
Michael Barnett
Michael Chanowitz
Michael Levi
Miguel Furman
Miha Muskinja
Murdock Gilchriese
Natalie Roe
Nathalie Palanque-Delabrouille
Nathaniel Craig
Nikolaos Kalntis
Noah Sailer
Paolo Calafiura
Paolo Ferracin
Patrick McDonald
Peter Harrington
Peter Nugent
Peter Sorensen
Remi Lehe
Richard Bonventre
Richard Gerber
Robert Cahn
Robert Jacob
roger falcone
Rongpu Zhou
SAMUEL BARBER
Satya Gontcho A Gontcho
Saul Perlmutter
Scott Haselschwardt
Scott Kravitz
Shuo Han
Simon Knapen
Simone Ferraro
Simone Pagan Griso
So Chigusa
Soubhik Kumar
Stefano Roberto Soleti
Stepan Bulanov
Stephen Bailey
Stephen Gourlay
Tengming Shen
Thomas Schenkel
Tianhuan Luo
Timon Heim
Tobias Ostermayr
Tong Zhou
Tony Spadafora
Vanessa Boehm
Vivek Singh
Weiming Yao
Xinran Li
Yilun Xu
Yuan Mei
Yury Kolomensky
Zachary Marshall
Zara Bagdasarian
Zoltan Ligeti